L4D 2

[Cpt._Keyes]

1.2% is not alot of people

[quote="mr_s";p="179333"][quote="Oddjob";p="179322"]
I don't see why people are complaining so much. They made a new game from the ground up with a lot of new features and a revamped engine. I am all for it and it seems like most of the people complaining are people I never even see playing the first L4D.
[/quote]

yeah, but when you say "oh we gonna get you new content" and then decided to put that new content in a new game and charge ANOTHER 50, people get pissed off[/quote]

They havent even said a price yet...and anyone who tries to infer what valve does based on minute insignificant statements "It will be a full game" need only remember, scout update was actually spy update

[Masakari]

I just remember something that should put how truly not bad this is into perspective:

Rock Band/Guitar Hero

I think every 6 months they put out a new version of each - and that's as simple as new songs - not even new game modes or anything like that. Plus, any DLC they put out in terms of new songs is $2 a pop.

With L4D, you'll be getting hundreds of free custom made content in the near future, so it could be worse. *Much* worse.

[Aez]

Not to mention EA's monstrocities where they tweak the game slightly and update the roster/graphics each year.

The bottom line is that we've been spoiled by Valve and I don't expect that to last forever. Sooner or later, Valve is going to start acting more like a normal company. That doesn't mean that their games will stop being superb, but they're going to be able to demand a brand-premium in terms of cost and new content. I think the sooner we come to terms with that fact, the more we'll realize that paying more won't be that bad considering the worth they're getting out of their Valve games (and if they don't, then they can move on amicably).

[metacide]

I said this last year about L4D, I think it's still relevant so I'll say it again for L4D2.

How much does fun cost?
1 night out = dinner (around $20) + drinks (varies a lot between $10 and $70, average $30) + gas money ($10~) + event (from improv to movie to what have you $10 - $250, average $40)

So all together thats around $100 for a single night of what I would call "fun". I'm assuming L4D2 will be about $50 on PC, and the great thing about it is I can play it over and over again. So instead of having one night of fun I can have a week's worth, heck maybe even a month of fun. Based on just the math it's more than worth it.

That's my 2 cents.

[Plinko]

[quote="metacide";p="179673"]
That's my 2 cents.
[/quote]

You're forgetting how much the booze costs while I'm playing! of course, since I'm drinking at home it's not to bad, but you gotta include all the costs!!

[Torven]

[quote="metacide";p="179673"]I said this last year about L4D, I think it's still relevant so I'll say it again for L4D2.

How much does fun cost?
1 night out = dinner (around $20) + drinks (varies a lot between $10 and $70, average $30) + gas money ($10~) + event (from improv to movie to what have you $10 - $250, average $40)

So all together thats around $100 for a single night of what I would call "fun". I'm assuming L4D2 will be about $50 on PC, and the great thing about it is I can play it over and over again. So instead of having one night of fun I can have a week's worth, heck maybe even a month of fun. Based on just the math it's more than worth it.

That's my 2 cents.[/quote]

By that logic, they should have been selling Plants Vs Zombies for $50.

[metacide]

[quote="Plinko";p="179687"]
You're forgetting how much the booze costs while I'm playing! of course, since I'm drinking at home it's not to bad, but you gotta include all the costs!![/quote]

The roommate buys all the liquor so I dont track costs of that... Let's call it $15 a night tho.

By that logic, they should have been selling Plants Vs Zombies for $50.

They probably could have and people would have bought it, but I dont think this discussion is about profit margin for Steam/Valve/whatever as opposed to "Will I enjoy the game and is it worth it?"

For me the answer is yes.

[ShiftyDevil]

[quote="metacide";p="179712"][quote="Plinko";p="179687"]
You're forgetting how much the booze costs while I'm playing! of course, since I'm drinking at home it's not to bad, but you gotta include all the costs!![/quote]

The roommate buys all the liquor so I dont track costs of that... Let's call it $15 a night tho.

By that logic, they should have been selling Plants Vs Zombies for $50.

They probably could have and people would have bought it, but I dont think this discussion is about profit margin for Steam/Valve/whatever as opposed to "Will I enjoy the game and is it worth it?"

For me the answer is yes.[/quote]

Whoa, whoa now!

Are you saying you don't make your purchases based off what some corporation does, but, rather you make your purchases on what you want!

My mind, it has been blown!

[CastleDoctrine]

I must confess that I no longer have any serious interest in the soon to be Left 4 Dead franchise. With hindsight being 20/20, I should have waited for the half price deal. I still remember the message that was shown once I completed the L4D demo, prior to the release of the full game. I believe it read something to the effect of "10 new weapons" and new maps.

That being said, this controversy is ridiculous. If someone is enthusiastic about this sequel, then pre-order like there's no tomorrow. If another is disappointed, then feel free not to help Gabe Newell purchase a fifth home and don't buy it. Perhaps this economic principle will provide food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Let Valve make their sequel. Let us judge it and them by the final, full, version. But this mean spirited back and forth about a game nowhere near release serves nothing but petty division.

[Torven]

[quote="metacide";p="179712"]

By that logic, they should have been selling Plants Vs Zombies for $50.

They probably could have and people would have bought it, but I dont think this discussion is about profit margin for Steam/Valve/whatever as opposed to "Will I enjoy the game and is it worth it?"

For me the answer is yes.[/quote]

You were the one trying to draw parallels between cost, play time and value. Personally, I would not have bought Plants Vs Zombies for $50, despite how much time I have spent playing it. By the same token, I very likely would not have spent forty-some odd dollars on L4D without the interviews stating I was buying more than just what was in the box; the game as it was (and still is) just was not worth the price of admission.

[metacide]

I'm not trying to convince you to buy the game Torven. I'm stating my opinion that $50 is no big deal to throw down for a game that I will like. I play the original whenever I can get a team together and have a couple hours to kill. I understand that you dont care for the game or certain aspects of the game and dont think its worth $50, thats fine.

What I'm saying is this: "I'm going to buy the game and I hope to see some other villuns there as well." I'm not going to try and sway anyone. Like CD said, if you dont care for it, dont buy it.

[mr_s]

[quote="CastleDoctrine";p="179733"]
I must confess that I no longer have any serious interest in the soon to be Left 4 Dead franchise. With hindsight being 20/20, I should have waited for the half price deal. I still remember the message that was shown once I completed the L4D demo, prior to the release of the full game. I believe it read something to the effect of "10 new weapons" and new maps.

That being said, this controversy is ridiculous. If someone is enthusiastic about this sequel, then pre-order like there's no tomorrow. If another is disappointed, then feel free not to help Gabe Newell purchase a fifth home and don't buy it. Perhaps this economic principle will provide food for thought:

[web height=350]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence[/web]
Let Valve make their sequel. Let us judge it and them by the final, full, version. But this mean spirited back and forth about a game nowhere near release serves nothing but petty division.
[/quote]

this is you kind sir.



[quote="metacide";p="179736"]
I'm not trying to convince you to buy the game Torven. I'm stating my opinion that $50 is no big deal to throw down for a game that I will like. I play the original whenever I can get a team together and have a couple hours to kill. I understand that you dont care for the game or certain aspects of the game and dont think its worth $50, thats fine.

What I'm saying is this: "I'm going to buy the game and I hope to see some other villuns there as well." I'm not going to try and sway anyone. Like CD said, if you dont care for it, dont buy it.
[/quote]

I see your point mate, however a fun night out can mean more friends, whereas a fun night in can mean less chance of a fight braking out.

both have good valid points

[Cpt._Keyes]

[quote="CastleDoctrine";p="179733"]I must confess that I no longer have any serious interest in the soon to be Left 4 Dead franchise. With hindsight being 20/20, I should have waited for the half price deal. I still remember the message that was shown once I completed the L4D demo, prior to the release of the full game. I believe it read something to the effect of "10 new weapons" and new maps.

That being said, this controversy is ridiculous. If someone is enthusiastic about this sequel, then pre-order like there's no tomorrow. If another is disappointed, then feel free not to help Gabe Newell purchase a fifth home and don't buy it. Perhaps this economic principle will provide food for thought:

[web height=350]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence[/web]
Let Valve make their sequel. Let us judge it and them by the final, full, version. But this mean spirited back and forth about a game nowhere near release serves nothing but petty division.[/quote]thats not even close to the same thing...planned obsolescence is making it to where you are told that you cannot (or made so you cannot) use the item which has become obsolete, and thus are made to get a new one...this is a different product based off another product...l4d2 does not obsolete l4d as both will be equally playable...now if they made it to where they released l4d2 and made it so you cannot play l4d content without l4d...then that would be an argument for planned obsolescence

now i dont care either way..i waited till the half price deal...and i still think l4d is not worth the 50 they asked...but i also love the game and it has amazing replayability...i prob will continue to play both...hell i played RA2, i play TFC dod1.3 etct etc etc those have sequels too...thats the same stuation as l4d2...not planned obsolescence

[Grapedrink]

this thread has reached critical mass, execute evacuation procedures immediately

[ShiftyDevil]

[quote="Torven";p="179735"][quote="metacide";p="179712"]

By that logic, they should have been selling Plants Vs Zombies for $50.

They probably could have and people would have bought it, but I dont think this discussion is about profit margin for Steam/Valve/whatever as opposed to "Will I enjoy the game and is it worth it?"

For me the answer is yes.[/quote]

You were the one trying to draw parallels between cost, play time and value. Personally, I would not have bought Plants Vs Zombies for $50, despite how much time I have spent playing it. By the same token, I very likely would not have spent forty-some odd dollars on L4D without the interviews stating I was buying more than just what was in the box; the game as it was (and still is) just was not worth the price of admission.[/quote]

Torven I can't even remember the last time I saw you play L4D.

Also, the use of planned obsolescence is in-accurate. L4D is not obsolete, the servers aren't being taken down. Everyone is still able to play, I have seen no where that it is stated Valve will no longer support this game. Should we rail on Microsoft for the planned obsolescence of Windows 2000 and XP? I hear even Windows 7 is not going to be supported in the future while Microsoft releases a new operating system. In general, in time all software will no longer be supported.

So, if you don't want to pay for it don't. But, whining about it is silly. It's one thing to be an intelligent consumer, and a completely different thing to lash out for illogical reasons.