Hey guys, glad you've been reading my guide. I've been meaning to post feedback on your comments, but real life has been busy. Better late than never, right? I'm also planning in extending part II a bit, with a few extra sections (including an explanation of facestabs!).
TheCarpe wrote:I would argue that the Engineer is the hard counter to Scouts, as a competent Engineer with a good setup will effectively deny a Scout from a large area and there is little to nothing the Scout himself can do about it.
Great point! Mini-sentries in particular are super annoying for scouts to deal with. I've added this to the scout section.
TTHREAZ wrote:While I agree with you on the Scattergun, I have to ask why the Sandman and Guillotine combo hadn't been mentioned. The amount of damage you can lay out with it is absolutely absurd. You can literally bonk a Heavy, hit him with the Guillotine and down him with one Scattergun shot.
If you consider the combo as derp, then I understand. I disagree with you but understand.
Zork Nemesis wrote:If I may, Sandman/Guillotine, while it does a crap ton of damage (195 plus bleeding under optimal conditions: 45 crit baseball + 150 crit cleaver), it takes a decent amount of accuracy and practice to make it work, and if you miss with the baseball, the whole thing is moot. The baseball takes three times longer to charge than the cleaver and the cleaver itself is pretty awkward to throw. Practice makes perfect for any loadout, but due to the projectile mechanics and required synergy, these two take a bit more than most other loadouts.
TTHREAZ, Zork actually does a nice job summarizing my feelings here. The Sandman/Flying Guillotine combo can work, but at what trade off? Like Zork mentions, you'll need pretty good aim/luck in order to get both your stun and knife to hit, and if either misses, you're in trouble. I think the extra 15 hitpoints and more reliable sidearm (or better utility weapon like the Mad Milk) are generally more beneficial. You'll notice that's the trend with my guide - what is generally better in most situations? It's sort of the same situation as with the Loch-N-Load - sure it can deal a lot of damage when it works, but it's not as reliable.
6Larry9 wrote:I'm not sure about crit/spread servers, but I think the max a scattergun can do in one shot is 104 with out any add ons or anything. That's all very trival though . It looks good though. Great work.
Glad you liked the guide Larry! From my research, each scattergun pellet does 10.5 damage at close range. Multiply that by 10 pellets per shot, and you've got your 105 damage. But like you mention, the difference between 104 and 105 is pretty trivial!
majine3765 wrote:Looks like a great start for anyone that is unsure of where to start. I even gained a little about using crossbow with medic. For whatever reason it never occurred to me to use the crossbow.
Glad it helped! I like the crossbow for the potential long-range heals. It's not very common for that to happen though, in which case the Overdose is your best bet. The Crusader's Crossbow paired with the Amputator gives you +1 hp per second, a nice set bonus, and something to seriously consider.
Soltan wrote:I've tried the crossbow but generally prefer overdose. I basically view my ubersaw as my only medigun alternative. Probably not typical for most medics though.
As I mention above, the Overdose is a solid alternative. In high-level competitive play, you really see both being used roughly 50-50. One thing to keep in mind, the speed bonus granted by the Overdose is only in effect when it is the equipped weapon.
Zork Nemesis wrote:Concerning the fish, why would you put the fish over a stock bat or alternative variant? I know that the two are identical in function, but the fish is much more blatant since it registers the kill feed on each hit. You use spies as your reason, but (believe it or not) not every spy is a dead ringer, and how many times do you specifically melee people you think are spies? Typically I don't melee them unless there's nothing else around, as I want my gun out to shoot people who are legitimate threats if the need arises. If you're meleeing unaware victims, they're far more likely to notice you're bashing their skull in when the big white square in the corner when they're struck shows up; the only thing that might be more blatant is the obnoxious frying pan clang (or, if you somehow have it, the distinctive sound from the Saxxy turning people to gold).
First, thanks for your comments. I'm going to break them up into seperate chunks and tackle each paragraph individually. First, let's talk about the choice of melee weapons for scout. Remember, I actually recommend using the Boston Basher as your melee weapon. As a scout, you shouldn't really be meleeing anyone - ever. Your primary is best at close range, so, given the choice, it's best to always use that anyway. At least the Basher can be used to help build an uber. That said, the advantage the Holy Mackerel grants you over the stock bat is that it lets you know when a spy uses is feign, as it won't say FISH KILL in the kill feed if the spy is only faking a death. Sure, that's a small advantage, but every advantage can help. I'm not sure what you mean by more blatant. Is it a concern that your attacks are showing in the kill feed? Or is the loud/different noise that worries you? Regardless though, use the Boston Basher.
Zork Nemesis wrote:"Best" loadouts are subjective. They vary depending on who you ask. While some are statistically more effective than others (for example, it's pretty much agreed upon that Escape Plan or Equalizer beats Shovel any day, or Third Degree over stock axe), people can make things work with enough practice and patience. Look at me, I field Loch-n-Load, Targe, and Eyelander on Demo on a regular basis. I inform medics not to use me for ubers but I still prove effective by being able to pick off stragglers and knowing where to attack from. Or another example is my use of Backburner and Detonator, in which the Detonator is used to open up more attack routes allowing me to take better advantage of the Backburner's guaranteed crits. Anything can work if you take the time to learn it.
Best loadouts are subjective, but only to a point. Some loadouts are definitely better than others. For example, why ever use the default Bonesaw instead of the Amputator or Solemn Vow (exact same weapon + taunt can heal or see enemy health)? I think provided my response in your own comment. Some loadouts are simply statistically more effective. A demoknight wielding the Loch-n-Load, the Targe, and Eyelander is never going to be able to match the DPS of an equally competent player using the stock weapons. In my book, that makes it a less effective loadout. I'm not saying it's not fun to demoknight, and that you can't rack up a ton of kills doing it, but the focus of this guide is for serious play, trying to maximize the potential of each class. Finally, regarding your pyro loadout: again it can certainly be effective in the right circumstances. However, if you are sneaking off on flank routes you are not protecting the combo, and the extra cost for compression blast with the Backburner really hampers your ability to support the team. Pyro is, after all, a support class first.
Zork Nemesis wrote:Otherwise, your guide does provide a lot of general advice that's good to follow. One thing i'll mention: in my experience, Snipers counter other Snipers (to a point where many Snipers are advised to prioritize Snipers first) and Spies can be soft countered by Scouts (since aware scouts are difficult to catch, plus Mad Milk) and Snipers who use specific loadouts (Jarate, Sydney Sleeper, Razorback to some degree)
Good points here. Not listing sniper as a counter to sniper was a brainfart on my part. Obviously, sniper duels are a huge part of that class. Regarding spies, honestly almost every class could be listed as a counter for spies, since almost everyone is spy-checking. I think I will edit the post to reflect the use of Mad Milk and Jarate as counters though. Thanks for all your comments!
You'llNeverWalkAlone wrote:Great guide Domer! While I am sure people will disagree where their personal loadout or style is not mentioned, this is a very helpful guide to playing each class.
Thanks! People will always disagree, but it can help spark fruitful discussion. That's how the game evolves.
Fano wrote:While that sounds super gimmicky, it's probably actually pretty good, the biggest drawback for me would be losing the third jump from the atomizer and the extra health (and fall damage immunity) from that new pistol whose name I can't remember.
I totally forgot about the Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol. I've never actually used it, but that extra 15 health could be very handy and synergistic with the Atomizer and Sandman (not sure how helpful the fall damage immunity actually is). My question though, are the drawbacks worth it? An extra 50% vulnerability to fire damage is pretty significant, not too mention the 25% slower firing rate.
TTHREAZ wrote:I'm so used to using the Sandman that it doesn't matter what kind of perks the other melee weapons provide; I'd still prefer to have the stun at my disposal. Yes, it drops your health but Scouts are supposed to be weak.
Stun is useful at times, but don't let it blind you to the perks of other weapons. Scouts have low HP, but they are far from weak.
6Larry9 wrote:Just out of wonderment can you block a guillotine with another mid flight like with huntsman arrows?
I honestly have no idea. Anyone test this? My guess is yes, because like huntsman arrows, the guillotine knives can be reflected by pyros, leading me to believe their properties are similar.
Fingolfin wrote:Thanks for the new section! I tried running a "max FPS" configuration a bit ago, before I realized it was my internet slowing the game down. Beyond that I never looked too deeply into the console panel or scripting. I'll definitely use some of that.
No problem! I should probably link to Chris's TF2 configs somewhere. They are the most widely used configs to help increase FPS. Fortunately, I have a good enough PC that I haven't needed to use them. But as you say, often it's our internet connection that is the real culprit. I know you like to play heavy, definitely consider "fov_desired 90" to increase your cone of of vision (helps you see those spies coming!) and "hud_combattext_batching 1" to combine the damage text on your minigun into a more manageable chunk of information.
You'llNeverWalkAlone wrote:Tried the glowing payload/intel and widening the fov last night for the first time. Very helpful!! Being able to see the intel or payload at all times is a huge help, and the wider fov is fantastic. I was somewhere between 50-60, so this upgrade to 90 is very noticeable and a huge help, especially with some of the larger weapons.
I love these guides as I find new things out about the game and each class. I especially like the discussion they bring up about loadouts and play styles.
As a guy who is mostly a medic, I haven't had a chance to try out the vacinator (just got one the other day) and would love some input/ideas from people who may be familiar with its use and strategy. Any thoughts about it? I would also love to hear from someone who has tried it in mvm, as it seems like it might have some value there.
I'm really glad some of my tips helped! I agree the discussion fostered by these guides is great. As far as the Vaccinator is concerned, I'm afraid it may be a useless weapon in serious play. The bar is set pretty high with the stock Medigun, and the Vaccinator really can't hold a candle to it. It does seem like it may have some value in MVM, especially if you can predict the type of damage coming your way. Considering its release during the height of the MVM craze, I wouldn't be surprised if MVM strategy wasn't on the mind of the developers when they devised it. I won't, however, pretend to know enough about MVM to say too much more than that.