Beggar's Bazooka - OP? or OPest?

[wedge]

The only reason it was banned in UGC was because of a reload exploit. It is still a pain in the ass to play against in certain maps (ie koth_arctic). It's flashy and gives a new way of playing soldier, but it's really cheesy.

I got the bazaar bargain banned.

[cam]

The only reason it was banned in UGC was because of a reload exploit. It is still a pain in the ass to play against in certain maps (ie koth_arctic). It's flashy and gives a new way of playing soldier, but it's really cheesy.

I got the bazaar bargain banned.

I saw that video. lols were had

[The Domer]

I knew about the bazooka exploit, but I'd not heard of the bazaar bargain glitch til now. Was wondering what it was banned.

[Daryldime]

Yeah the exploits ruined the bargain hoping it gets fixed. I love the bargain...

[Plinko]

It's funny because I see that mentioned all the time now that the pick/ban HL league talk is all the rage right now.

It's always '(x, y, z) and the bazaar bargain need to be always banned because of that glitch. Please valve just fix it'. It's in like every message on the subject.

I was really coming here to say, I dislike notions of the Beggar's Bazooka being called 'OP' and banned because we already have a term for a class that can get past everyone and then unleash a one shot kill on players who aren't expecting it' and we call that Spy, except the real Spy has more health when he does it and actually turns invisible instead of taking damage while he flies through the air.

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

Plinko I am right there with you. Ban the Spy!

[cam]

The difference being spies can be predicted and denied by simply turning around. As a medic, 99% of the time dying to a spy means you weren't paying attention. Dying to rocket launcher soldier bombing in on you is pretty much the same: you weren't paying attention. The rocket launcher only has 4 shots so its not like he can come flying from the opposite side of the map and unload on you.

The bazooka is different. The bazooka gives a skilled jumper access to essentially the entire map. It usually doesn't matter where you are or where you hide. You are going to eat three rockets.

[Zork Nemesis]

The bazooka is different. The bazooka gives a skilled jumper access to essentially the entire map. It usually doesn't matter where you are or where you hide. You are going to eat three rockets.

Look up, listen for explosions. Those bright red/blue colors aren't hard to see against the skybox. Just because it isn't a spy doesn't mean you can't counter it by paying attention. Remember the soldier has to take a significant chunk of damage to achieve flight (even with the Gunboats on it's still about 80+ damage from two close-range explosions and fall; more if one of those explosions was in close proximity to an enemy) so being ready when he lands is your best defense. Map design also works against Beggars; maps with tight spaces don't work for this, you need large open areas to make the best use of the flight. Maps like Granary, Turbine, Gullywash, Steel, Barnblitz, and many others have several enclosed locations that prevent this from working.

[cam]

Look up, listen for explosions. Those bright red/blue colors aren't hard to see against the skybox. Just because it isn't a spy doesn't mean you can't counter it by paying attention. Remember the soldier has to take a significant chunk of damage to achieve flight (even with the Gunboats on it's still about 80+ damage from two close-range explosions and fall; more if one of those explosions was in close proximity to an enemy) so being ready when he lands is your best defense. Map design also works against Beggars; maps with tight spaces don't work for this, you need large open areas to make the best use of the flight. Maps like Granary, Turbine, Gullywash, Steel, Barnblitz, and many others have several enclosed locations that prevent this from working.

I'm not saying that it isn't counterable or that it will always work. And it doesn't matter how much damage the soldier has to take if he kills the medic. That's the whole point of bombing.

I'm saying that the amount of skill it takes to counter a bombing bazooka is greater than the amount of skill it takes to perform a bazooka bomb.

[esmo]

I regret having given rocketjumping tips to hippo... he's become a bazooka monster.

The only real counter to it is a really good heavy. I've tried to hit bou when he's bazooka'ing and ended up killing him only after like 5 rockets and 4 other people around me.

[cam]

I've found that as a soldier it's best to wait for them to come to you, pray that you aren't who theyre targeting, rocket jump up, and try to splash them. If they weren't buffed before their assault it usually only takes one or two good hits to drop them.

However they usually manage to kill at least one person so it leaves you hoping it wasn't the medic or yourself. The bazooka silly can still escape by rocket jumping away too...

[Cat Square]

it should only take one successful assault for a medic to gain the awareness it takes to avoid bazooka bombs. Once the medic becomes aware of bazooka bombers, he'll stay concealed until the coast is clear. Meanwhile, the opposing team has basically sacrificed a combat-class slot to a one trick pony whose trick has become exponentially harder to pull off.

[Professor_Frink]

It's a pretty silly weapon and it needs some type of change. I hate that as a pyro I can reflect one of the rockets at the solider (and not kill him!) and then get killed when the other two hit me. There isn't really a good answer for how to deal with a good rocket jumper that has one of these.

Maybe make it more like the direct hit where the blast radius is smaller?

That and they just seem to be able to reload it too fast.

[Earthworm James]

The Bazooka is strongest when used with excellent timing. Choosing good firing lanes & angles to peak are essential, but timing is the key to the Bazookas success and demise. Knowing where the Bazooka Soldier is at is the first step, if they get the first shots on you, it's going to be hard to turn the showdown around. Once you are aware of the bazooka solly, then start thinking like them and anticipating their timing. If you can catch them off guard, without 2-3 rockets loaded, you've got a stellar shot at taking them down. Otherwise, retreat/evade and try again to use the timing requirements of the bazooka against themselves. If the solly is loading up, may as well get out of their range, because they HAVE to fire or take self-damage. As soon as they do unload, that is when they are primed for pwnage.

Since it's release as a strange, I have not used another rocket launcher bazooka.

[eumoria]

My only argument is the random crit problem. This is conjecture just from gameplay and I'm not certain exactly how the game mechanics work but this is what appears to happen:

It seems that any of the three rockets have an equal chance to become critical from the burst fire so it creates the scenario that the soldier wielding the bazooka will crit potentially 30% more in the same timeframe than any of the other soldier launchers. It seems (have not tested) 1 crit rocket from the bazooka is as powerful as 1 crit rocket from any other launcher, which is the second most powerful thing in the entire game.

This seems kinda stupid (like I said I'm not sure about the exact game mechanics) if the crit chance is the same "per-rocket" as the other rocket launchers.

The crit chance should be reduced to make it crit the same average amount of times as the standard launcher over a given amount of gameplay time, either that or make the critical chance happen once from each release so as to eliminate the multiple crits that come out of that thing.

Without crits, though, I think the weapon is totally fine. I've never fought a soldier on common terms (when I had the standard launcher and they had the bazooka) that they weren't completely torn apart. It's a surprise weapon and that's it's only benefit. If you know they are there they're not going to be as effective as they would with nearly any other launcher.

A counter argument to myself is that the thing is a spam weapon, so its ability to crit an unbalanced amount of times over the other rocket launchers is a huge benefit as a spamming weapon. So I dunno.

Also spy should be removed from the game entirely.